So, I have been recently thinking about the bridge between hip hop artists that are considered old school verses the new school. What is today’s hip hop and where is it going?
2009 was a big year for hip-hop with many major releases, some of which we have been waiting for over 10 years! Raekwon’s Only Built 4 Cuban Linx 2 comes to mind because Raekwon/Wu-Tang have been putting down very legit music for quite some time. But what will happen when that generation of artists is gone? Eminem has also been making music for a very long time; Relapse, was a huge release this year, along with Jay-Z’s Blueprint 3. Q-Tip put out a cd as well. I love getting this music but it scares me. What will happen when these guys stop making music? I feel that as a “hip hop culture” we are not preparing ourselves to see these legends stop making music. I have seen A Tribe Called Quest perform a couple of times now and as sick as it was, they looked old! De La Soul as well; they can still spit but the concerts are very different than I imagine they used to be. Tying back to my last “(Da) What’s on my Mind” about record labels, the record labels are not taking care of their young artists and only focusing on the guys who are established and that means they won’t have a selling point/person in a few years. I am not trying to be cynical. In sports you see veterans take smaller roles in order to let the new guys in, but that is something I think is missing in Hip Hop. These guys are still making good music but will they always be able to do so, and will the new artists be ready to step in?
Another aspect of the old school vs. new school is how the artists act towards each other. I find this very curious although not being an artist myself I cannot completely understand the dynamics here. I thought it was very cool that Jay-Z had J.Cole, Drake and Kid Cudi all on his album, putting them on the big stage, but how many artists are helping usher in the new guys. Mos Def did tour with Jay Electronica this summer, so there are exceptions to what I am talking about. Bun B is another artist that I feel has been a sort of bridge from the old school to new school. I feel that a genre so driven by the fans needs the artists to promote each other. If we don’t know who the new guys are, then I feel that it all could wither away. I know this is all extreme but it seems that outside a select few, the veterans are not preparing the rookies to take over.
My final point that I think is worth mentioning is about the sound of hip hop. Many of the new artists – Kid Cudi, Drake, B.o.B.- do not sound like rappers, especially not the rappers that helped start everything up. My question is then: is there commercial hip hop anymore? I know that there is underground stuff that is true to the roots of hip hop but I feel that today’s artist is more flexible in their ability to sing, play instruments and make songs with crossover appeal. I still like a lot of the stuff I am hearing, for instance I have really enjoyed Cudi’s album through my first 5-6 listens. But it does not remind me of the old school hip-hop that I have come to know and love. B.o.B. has even been quoted as saying that he wasn’t a “rapper” and that people shouldn’t call him that. Does this mean that hip-hop has changed? Or does it mean that there is no more commercial hip-hop, just pop/other genres made by guys who would have once been considered rappers as well. I know I have only mentioned a few specific artists by name and that this doesn’t apply to EVERY new artist but “Best I Ever Had” is hardly comparable to “The Bridge is Over” by KRS-One.
What do you guys think? Are we prepared as a culture for where hip hop is going? If not, can we change the direction? Is it all right for hip-hop to change or should a new genre be started for those other guys so that hip-hop can stay the same? Or am I tripping and is this just the normal way for things to go?
gRAPHix
September 17, 2009
I agree that there is a lack of recognition of many of the “next” generation of Hip-Hop artists. The fact that many in this new generation don’t sound like the old artists doesn’t bother me though, if anything it shows the evolution of Hip-Hop. Rock’n’Roll as a genre has never sounded the same, Elvis and Pink Floyd sound nothing alike yet are considered legends of the genre. The same goes for Jazz. I think this just further cements Hip-Hop as one of the major permanent music genres. The 90’s were a Golden Age for Hip-Hop. We can’t be lucky enough to have that every decade, especially when 4 of the best MC’s ever (Big Pun, 2pac, Biggie and Big L) die right around the turn of it. I think some new artists definitely vibe with the Old School feel, among them Blu, Skyzoo, Joell….etc.
purdyboy
September 17, 2009
I feel like DaWhat makes a good point in regards to the future of hip hop promotion. What is happening to this genre of music? It began with such vigorous passion that those who would follow behind the big artists are left with shoes too big to fill…in musically applicable terms: Wheres all the mad rappers at?
Killa Conscious
September 17, 2009
Hip hop artists of today seem to have a greater degree of awareness about what it takes to craft a commercially viable record, and are willing to apply that awareness to the creative process necessary to make music. Do I think that there are “no more commercial rappers”? Possibly, but were there ever? Commercial exploitation was the conduit through which we all came to be aware of rap music in the first place, if rappers are no longer commercial that’s only because no one buys music NE more. Personally, I feel more comfortable with the Drake’s and Kanyes of the game than the Kid Cudi and Mos Def (post Black on Both Sides) for no other reason than the former can still spit! Coming from the perspective of an emcee, that’s what draws me to another rap musician. The lyrics. The Kid Cudi genre is neither hip-hop nor rap if you think about it. I haven’t heard the whole album, so maybe I am somewhat uninformed, but speaking from day and night as well as heaven at night (or whatever the hell that horrible song is called) I don’t think that if Kid Cudi were a white man signed to Arista NE one would even attempt to call what he does rapping. It seems to me that we still live in a very racialized society, and for that reason the creative products of African people here in amerika are automatically categorized as “Hip-Hop” if there is the slightest bit of a rap influence in their music and this I don’t like. If we aren’t careful about the direction of the culture then in 20 years Rap, or it’s wack equivalent will sound something like “smooth jazz”. And I don’t know about you, but I think Kenny G. sucks.
Dekk
September 17, 2009
In my humble opinion…
Hip Hop is advancing from a musical standpoint. The roots of the genre are so simplistic and replicable that modern day artists are in search of an avenue by which to propel the scene/culture forward. This means application of outside genre, melody and theory. The same trend took place in rock during the early-mid 70′s when “art rock” bands like Pink Floyd attempted to extend the creative lengths of the art form. Keep in mind that rock is genre who’s origins are as simple as the four bar blues, so their movement was significant. We now have a flurry of rock genres, form alternative to indie, but the fact remains that it’s still rock and roll.
I think that hip hop is headed in the same direction.. Sub genre & massive cultural impact.
Those who complain about the transformation and trend will be left behind because the past will not return and in all honesty, why should we want it to? Why not love forward movement?
Peace.
-Dekk-
Lickwhat
September 17, 2009
I agree, hip hop is taking a turn for the worse. Just look at whats happened already. Back in the day rap and hiphop were a way of speaking your mind about things that weren’t exactly being covered by the media. Voices such as Public Enemy, Tupac, and others were critical of the media and the image it portrayed about the black community, while preaching the principles from the civil rights movement in their quest for equality.
But now we see all these rappers selling out and giving a message to kids such as this: you don’t need an education, being a pimp or a ho is an attractive lifestyle, material possessions are worth killing for (50 cent get rich or die trying being the most blatant example), and treat women like objects. How did we get from “let freedom ring” to “blingbling”? Corporatism, this is no coincidence.
Donny Goines
September 17, 2009
I feel you %100. The truth of the matter is there are many different things that push us forward, yet at the same time hold us back. As a new artist myself I’ve seen alot of this shit firsthand and to be completly honest I just don’t know what I can do anymore except what I’ve been doing. Continue to make good music and hope people will get it. One of my favorite quotes come from Ghandi “You must be the change that you wish to see within the world” and with that being said, it’s up to us to make the changes for the better.
Snza
September 17, 2009
People will always feel “something is missisng’ in hip hop. And those people, including myself, are the ones tat are NOT the prime target audience by the industry or artist standard’s. Of course yuo feel somethin is missin, cause it’s different than when we were coming up and fell in love with it. The shit we loved then has it all, to us, but the new shit doesn’t touch us the same. But ask the younger kids, most of em will not say anything’s missin, they content. As we grow, we , whether you wanna believe it or not, lose touch with other generations and grow even closer to our own, naturally making the older shit feel iller to us, and the newer shit more distant.
Jas Il
September 18, 2009
the only thing sure about our lives is change. undoubtedly, there has been a change in hip-hop. think of all the different sub-genres we’ve seen: backpack, conscious, mainstream, bling, gangsta, etc. these sub-genres have always been present but they have all gotten their “shine” in different time periods.
mainstream music is mostly dumbed down music, let’s be honest. although there are some bright spots with artists such as wale, the fact remains the fans still love trendy shit such as “jerk” music. as an artist myself, i have dumbed down my music at times. i’m not gonna lie. although i pride my music on the emotional and introspective music that makes fans feel a certain way, there are definitely times where i want to make club records. the difficulty in that is finding a way to appeal to the mainstream crowd without sacrificing who you are as an artist. this is something that a lot of artists struggle with. look at MIMS, for example. everyone know him for “this is why i’m hot”. i know i immediately labeled him trash. but i gave his sophomore album “guilt” a listen and i was completely surprised and it was probably one of my favorite albums of the year.
hip-hop is changing with every day. one thing i can’t stand is when people label things as “real hip-hop” as if there is such a thing as “fake hip-hop”. hip-hop is hip-hop. PERIOD. whether it’s kid cudi or j. cole or jay-z or drake. the shit is hip-hop. however, the sub-genre is different.
people keep talking about “let’s bring hip-hop back to the glory days”. but we have to reinvent and make our own glory days. we can’t look back to the past as a way to create our future.
“People keep talkin’ ’bout ‘Hov, take it back’
I’m doin’ better than before, why would I do that?”
Jas Il
S1xt6en
September 18, 2009
I understand and feel where you are coming from with this and as an artist I often ask myself the same thing.. But I love the way its going this direction is better than what we have had to endure for the last id say 4 years of CRAP! Most of these new artist especially YOUR top 10 to watch for are fresh air.. Cudi for example his album is amazing it doesnt sound like anything Ive heard come from a rapper and I think as artist that is what need to be done push the envelope!
Benja
September 18, 2009
this is awesome that this discussion is happening, its exactly what I was trying to get started.
Obviously there are still artists that put real shit out (a couple of whom are in this thread/forum) and I think that we as consumers are showing that we want hip hop to continue. Curren$y was able to release his cd digitally, Donny Goines’ “The Breakfast Club” was nominated for an Indie Best Hip Hop award and there are numerous blogs out there. With the advent of the internet I think that hip hop isnt going anywhere but I think it is changing.
The new artists know how to use the internet, flooding everyone with free music in order to gain buzz, meanwhile the older artists are sticking to what they know best – going through the record label and getting promoted and widely distributed. Personally, I wish that there could be crossover because I still buy hard copies of albums (I may be one of the few) and enjoy that aspect of the music industry from a fan’s perspective.
I would love to see hip hop EXPAND to include the new stuff but I don’t think I am ready for the new to replace the old and that is what I fear.
I thought that Hanif had a really interesting point about Kid Cudi being labeled as a rapper because he is black. I agree that if he was white, his music would not be considered rap – i.e. 3OH!3, those guys rhyme and i dont know any of their music but i am pretty sure no1 considers them hip hop…
i do like the new music and i refuse to say hip hop is dead but I see major record labels and radio/pop culture getting fazed out of hip hop when they used to play such a huge role.
Anu
September 19, 2009
Yeah, I think that question of race as a defining factor for the genre is an interesting one to look at that I don’t fully understand yet. What’s even more complicated though is you do have plenty of white guys (of course Eminem, but also a lot of guys like Atmosphere and Aesop Rock and other Rhymesayers artists) that people accept as hip hop, for a lot of reasons it’s been more constricting for black artists. Although the one thing I wonder about Cudi in particular is that maybe he’s partially considered hip hop because he considers himself hip hop, which I would be surprised if 30h!3 did. That might still be a racial conciousness thing though.
A lot of these changes have to do with hip hop adjusting to the market. The fact is someone like Cudi OR Drake (more or less people like Goines, S1xt6en, Luck-One and Dekk) can’t sell an album the way Jay or Eminem did because the industry doesn’t work the same way anymore. Infact, Jay and Eminem can only do so much to sell their own albums that way.
The genre is changing at it’s hard to say whether it’s for good or for bad until we experience it, which is why we have to be the ones driving it–calling out for what we like, making music we like, and supporting artists that we like even when we might not have a lot of money to spend on every album that comes along. That’s why people like Ben still buying jewel cover albums help it stay afloat. But the changes are also a progression. People are calilng out Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Biggie and Tupac, but what are they to somebody like DJ Kool Herc or Afrika Bambaata? The music HAS to change for both economic and cultural reasons, but as the people of the hip hop generation we have to make sure we’re navigating that change, and not big corporations. Ben’s first What’s on my Mind post in and of itself is a testament to the fact that it’s hard and harder for big corporations and labels to do that. And that I think we should take as a good sign.
matwit
September 19, 2009
this is a very interesting topic, and one that I have been contemplating myself. even though i barely listen to the radio, the new dudes i hear are straight wack. no flow, no punch lines, just plain shallow rhymes with a voice over. i believe the game and lil weezy are the last generation of real emcees. games got that west coast swagger with an east coast flow. although waynes best days seem to be behind him he has given us countless slaps. for these artists are prefer their mixtapes to their commercial releases. game is one of the hardest dudes to ever be part of this hip hop business. going along with a new generation of emcees there is also a new generation of producers. premo, rza, dre, pete rock, large professor etc are my favorite producers but they too are becoming old. fuck this scot storch timberland bullshit i hear on the radio. unfortunetely the future of hip hop looks bleak to me for the next few years at least. hopefully we will get some tru street poets in the future. i think we owe artists like nas, big l, pac, big, krs, kool g, the wu, outkast, mobb deep, game, and weezy, etc some serious props.
v-vossolosso
September 21, 2009
reiterating on everyone’s analysis of this topic, its interesting to think about the change in listener attraction over the last 20 years. it just seems like more and more “wack”, untalented artist are hitting the stage do to their appearance versus. their poetic flow. artist like flo rida, plies, and drake seem to be putting out hits that are as simplistic and easy as sing-a longs at a campfire. sure some may say that this is a new form of music intended to appeal to our new generation of hip hop listeners, as unrealistic as it seems this new art form of hip hop needs to be classified as a different genre. its unfair to the name of hip hop. most recent lyricist of our generation have been overlooked due to the economy and what attracts the youth. artist like Binary Star and Immortal Technique despise the artist of our future as they produce their music on bigger issues then pimping hoes and crazy one night stands. why must the greatest artist of my lifetime such as living legends, devin the dude, binary star, jedi mind tricks, atmosphere, G&E, hi tek, Cunninlynguists, mos def, aesop not be celebrated like the money making artist? however, we cant loose hope in legitimate artist arising, but its fair to be skeptical of the hip hop industries’ purpose. its hard to respect the hip hop world wen only rappers like Eminem, Game and Weeezy are getting credit as lyricist.
Dev Tejwani
January 18, 2010
you have couple very good points.
in reality, it seems the only constant in anything pop culture, music, etc is change.
the way we make and listen to music has almost completely been changed since the berth of hiphop.(in terms of technology).
the traditional methods of distribution has been ruined by the internet. and music labels (especially executives) have failed to keep up with the changing times. now, to make money, songs have to be poppy and radio friendly to be recognized and recieve mass appeal.
the music industry has definetely taken a toll for the worst. but hey, what a world without starving musicians?